Student Loan Hell

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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby CamilleDevine on Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:08 pm

I don't see why the government should entirely shoulder the burden.
Without getting into arguments about the perceived value of some courses, there are things that I REALLY do not want to be paying for someone else to "study". Those courses which, ultimately, will not get someone a job, or aren't necessary in making them a valuable member of society.
I think some responsibility for the CHOICE to learn should fall on the person choosing it.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby linse on Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:00 pm

The government always has money for weapons and wars.
But not for education. Just take look at the yearly budgets, its so wrong in my opinion.

I think investing in education would be a better bet for the future of a country in the long run.
And I'm sure it will pay back as well, as education enables a countries residents to develop their skills and be productive.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby TheWorstIdea on Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:38 pm

linse wrote:I think investing in education would be a better bet for the future of a country in the long run.
And I'm sure it will pay back as well, as education enables a countries residents to develop their skills and be productive.


Completely agree!

If you look back, going to university never used to be about getting a job (notwithstanding professional degrees, of course). It used to be about gaining knowledge, becoming a more well-rounded individual and contributing to society--but "contributing" isn't the same as "contributing financially." I actually read statistics that found far fewer people enrolled in liberal arts and social sciences programs during periods of economic instability because they felt these degrees were useless. Which is absolute bullshit, in my opinion. I have a social sciences education, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But the reality is that I had to figure out how to relate that education--research, writing, critical thinking, etc--into a career. It feels like people get so caught up in the idea that university equals a career, but I don't think that's realistic for a lot of people.

I agree that the system really fuels this--you go into debt in order to pay for schooling, so you *need* to find a job with a living wage to pay back the debt. If you took away that pressure, I think people would have a fundamentally different idea of what they expect from their education.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby jessiegrrrl on Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:01 pm

TheWorstIdea wrote:
linse wrote:I think investing in education would be a better bet for the future of a country in the long run.
And I'm sure it will pay back as well, as education enables a countries residents to develop their skills and be productive.


Completely agree!

If you look back, going to university never used to be about getting a job (notwithstanding professional degrees, of course). It used to be about gaining knowledge, becoming a more well-rounded individual and contributing to society--but "contributing" isn't the same as "contributing financially." I actually read statistics that found far fewer people enrolled in liberal arts and social sciences programs during periods of economic instability because they felt these degrees were useless. Which is absolute bullshit, in my opinion. I have a social sciences education, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But the reality is that I had to figure out how to relate that education--research, writing, critical thinking, etc--into a career. It feels like people get so caught up in the idea that university equals a career, but I don't think that's realistic for a lot of people.

I agree that the system really fuels this--you go into debt in order to pay for schooling, so you *need* to find a job with a living wage to pay back the debt. If you took away that pressure, I think people would have a fundamentally different idea of what they expect from their education.


These are both very good points!

I think that even if you "do everything right", you can still run into those life circumstances where you aren't able to be in the position you thought you'd be in. That's life, that's the risk you take in getting into that debt. NOTHING is guaranteed. You could get loans out for medical school and then have something happen and lose your license to practice, but you're still certainly responsible for paying those loans, regardless of your now inevitably reduced pay scale. It's part of taking that risk, and even if things come up, you shouldn't have those loans forgiven, in my opinion. Yes, you should be able to pay them back as you are able, yes the loan companies should work with you to make everyone happy, but no, you shouldn't just get your education for free. And a lot of these options are available, as mentioned before. Student loan reform DID do a lot of good for us, in this sense.

I agree with the notion that everyone is "entitled" to higher education, but I don't necessarily think that we shouldn't have to at least pay something for it. We already go to school for free through high school. I think being entitled to higher education means being entitled to the opportunity, meaning that everyone should have equal opportunity to take out those loans, get scholarships, get aid based on financial need, and be accepted into some sort of program regardless of socioeconomic factors. Which, with some exception and red tape of course, IS the case in the US. The main issue with that is we should be allotting much more money to helping people get an education than we do.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby jessiegrrrl on Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:19 pm

And, to respond to Bean briefly regarding circumstance ... I do see what you're saying that things change. Yes, I'm sure your industry took a hit just like everyone else's did after 9/11. However to be honest, no, I don't see where you're going by explaining that your internship was to be in the twin towers ... Because then what happened? You didn't explain past that. Does that mean that your entire career niche disappeared completely? I doubt that, though it must have become difficult to find internships or jobs, of course, in that area.

It's unfortunate, but again, you signed on for the responsibility of those loans, and for the risk that you take in still being responsible for paying them back regardless of your future circumstances. There is no such thing as free money or free education. There just isn't. And if no one else is having that handed to them here, why should you or I get it?

I see my education and the twenty thousand dollar loans I take out every year to pay for it as an investment, and I think it's worth it. Yes, it would be nice if these things were made to be more affordable in our country, but this is the reality so I have to work around that. I didn't HAVE to go to graduate school, but I know that I can increase not only my earning potential but also my personal and professional growth in the direction that I am passionate about if I do. I don't expect that I will be able to get a job right away in my field, but I am doing everything I can right now to improve the chances that I will. And even then, I don't expect that I will be able to build a practice to support myself. I just have to HOPE that that's the case, like everyone else. But if I don't, I'm well aware that I'm still going to have to pay this money back!

Paying less now but having to pay for a longer period of time isn't a way of making you "fucked for even longer", either. That's a really asinine way of looking at it. So you can't afford to pay $300/month right now, okay, things happen. So you have the option of getting it reduced, so that you can pay, say, $100/month instead. Yeah, you're going to have to pay it back longer, but if you can't afford to pay that amount right now to reduce the loan quickly then what do you propose gets done about it??? Do you think that because you haven't been able to find a job in your field, or you didn't complete the degree, or you don't make enough, you should have them forgiven? If that were the policy, then anyone could make a case to make their loans disappear. If you want to say that you're fucked, then don't blame anyone else but yourself. You signed on the dotted line.

And like someone said before, not everyone can even qualify for these loans to get to school in the first place! I think that is a MUCH bigger issue than all this.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby jessiegrrrl on Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:24 pm

Also, as someone else mentioned above me, there IS something to be said for working your way through. My boyfriend went to an affordable community college for four years, without taking out a single loan and without any help at all from family, because they couldn't afford it. Now, I understand that tuition prices are skyrocketing, but it's not impossible, especially if you make wise choices. He worked after high school, saved enough for two years of college (and worked part time while in college as well) and paid for it. And then, he took a year break from school, worked until he had enough to go back, and went for another two years.

It's tough, and not the ideal way to go about it, but it is not impossible.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby voiddj on Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:20 pm

Prettygrimm wrote:question....
do you guys think we have a RIGHT to higher education?


I do think HE is a right, but that doesn't mean it has to be free, just accessible and affordable for all. No matter what the Government says the thought of debt will put some people off University study.

The idea that the cost of study is offset by the individual benefit through higher wages once in work just doesn't reconcile itself with me.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby Chaosbean on Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:58 am

ComradeM wrote:Soooo...you just want your loans forgiven right now, for no reason, because you feel like you're entitled to that? I seriously don't understand what you want. It seems like all you want to do is bitch about it.
I really don't understand the point of this thread.


I haven't bitched yet.

I don't want my student loans forgiven, for no reason, right now. I've already paid almost a third of mine off (early when I just graduated and I had no bills and the economy hadn't tanked entirely, which I recommend everyone not do. Pay the payment, save all your "extra" money for a rainy day, it will rain). I want my interest not to be 13%, and its 13% on my federal stafford loan.

And, I'm lucky my parents could cosign those student loans cause I sure as shit would not have been able to get them on my own.

The whole system needs reform, and you just keep ignoring that I'm saying that, and saying "your just bitching" well you are just refusing discourse.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby LilyBathory on Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:48 am

It does need reform, in my opinion. our system needs reform, cause even if our tuition is fuck all compared to any US college, it's still pissing me off. combigned with bologna studying in germany has become so difficult and people like me are failing because of obstacles such as deadlines for magister studies (magister studies were never designed to have pressure on them like this. it does not work.) and fees.

but honestly, from my point of view (which is a large ocean away) a system like ours now or our original system or even just a different system to grant loans seems impossible in the US. a country that thinks everything that is free is communism, a country that even protests universal health care (and man, honestly, that is just necessary) won't accept their tax money paying for higher education.

so guys, move.

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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby jessiegrrrl on Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:54 am

LilyBathory wrote:
so guys, move.


Wouuuuld love to. Believe me. Haha. Workin on it one of these days...
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby ComradeM on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:20 pm

Here. Have some discourse.:

I call bullshit.

"Stafford Loans have a fixed interest rate of 6.8% for loans with a first disbursement after July 1, 2006. (Previously, Stafford Loans had variable interest rates (based on 91-day T-bill rate + 1.7% during school with an additional 0.6% increase upon graduation) capped at 8.25% or less, depending on yearly adjustments.) All lenders offer the same rate for the Stafford Loan, although some give discounts for on-time and electronic payment."

Perkins loans are fixed at 5%, and you do not need a cosigner for either type of FEDERAL loan.

Soooo....while I do agree that the government could do more in the department of grants or other types of aid that do not require repayment, that's not what this thread is about, and government educational loans are a pretty sweet deal.

Maybe you're ill informed? Or maybe you're talking about private loans, which I already said I agree are predatory. I'm not refusing discourse, I'm trying to add facts to the discourse which are being completely ignored.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby jessiegrrrl on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:28 pm

ComradeM wrote:Here. Have some discourse.:

I call bullshit.

"Stafford Loans have a fixed interest rate of 6.8% for loans with a first disbursement after July 1, 2006. (Previously, Stafford Loans had variable interest rates (based on 91-day T-bill rate + 1.7% during school with an additional 0.6% increase upon graduation) capped at 8.25% or less, depending on yearly adjustments.) All lenders offer the same rate for the Stafford Loan, although some give discounts for on-time and electronic payment."

Perkins loans are fixed at 5%, and you do not need a cosigner for either type of FEDERAL loan.

Soooo....while I do agree that the government could do more in the department of grants or other types of aid that do not require repayment, that's not what this thread is about, and government educational loans are a pretty sweet deal.

Maybe you're ill informed? Or maybe you're talking about private loans, which I already said I agree are predatory. I'm not refusing discourse, I'm trying to add facts to the discourse which are being completely ignored.


"Like".

I was wondering the same thing.. How could you possibly have a federal loan with 13% interest?
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby namelesswonder on Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:34 pm

^Hence why all I said was people need to get a little more educated about loans before they go off on them. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I figured out who held all my loans and know what will happen if I stop paying. I'm not about to tank my credit score in favor of that camera or laptop I really want (not saying other people are being frivolous, just my situation).
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby TheWorstIdea on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:04 am

namelesswonder wrote:^Hence why all I said was people need to get a little more educated about loans before they go off on them.


Very true. Financial literacy is too important to ignore. Financial decisions can affect you for far too long and cause so much grief--as people here have demonstrated. I don't understand why money is such a taboo, but we're really just shooting ourselves in the foot.
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Re: Student Loan Hell

Postby CamilleDevine on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:15 am

Should be taught in school, I reckon.
I know schools have enough on their plates, what with parents expecting them to teach kids how to be decent human beings and all, but some financial literacy should be gone over at least yearly in one or two lessons.
I have friends who in one breath will say how they can't afford petrol til next payday, then in the next say they're getting a new car because "I'm paying off a loan already, adding to it wont matter much".
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